Death - Revision history

Flux: /* Player Fatalities */

2014-05-02T10:35:58Z

‎Player Fatalities

Flux at 10:32, 2 May 2014

2014-05-02T10:32:24Z

Flux at 12:21, 7 April 2014

2014-04-07T12:21:51Z

Show changes

Cthulhuhoop at 00:40, 27 May 2012

2012-05-27T00:40:02Z

Flux: /* Fatalities */

2012-05-12T02:59:42Z

‎Fatalities

Flux: /* Death and Difficulty */

2011-12-30T14:15:55Z

‎Death and Difficulty

Flux: /* Hardcore Mode */

2011-07-04T10:00:23Z

‎Hardcore Mode

Risingred: /* Fatalities */

2011-05-19T19:28:09Z

‎Fatalities

Flux at 03:53, 27 January 2011

2011-01-27T03:53:27Z

Flux: /* Death and Difficulty */

2011-01-27T03:42:35Z

‎Death and Difficulty

@@ Line 123: / Line 123: @@
 ===Player Fatalities===
-[[Image:Mon-siegebreaker-decapitation.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Siegebreaker]] chomps.]]Fan hopes were raised for special player death animations when the game debuted in 2008 with a gameplay video. In the conclusion of that video [[Siegebreaker]] inflicted a special decapitation kill to a Barbarian, and the developers said this sort of thing would be included in the game for some of the special bosses.<ref>[http://www.diii.net/n/681638/bashiok-quick-answers Bashiok forum post] - August 2009</ref>
+[[Image:Mon-siegebreaker-decapitation.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Siegebreaker]] chomps.]]Fan hopes were raised for special player death animations when the game debuted in 2008 with a gameplay video. In the conclusion of that video [[Siegebreaker]] inflicted a special decapitation kill to a Barbarian, and the developers said that [[Fatalities]] would be included in the game for some of the special bosses.<ref>[http://www.diii.net/n/681638/bashiok-quick-answers Bashiok forum post] - August 2009</ref>
-<blue><font color="#FFFFFF">Will there be more boss-specific [[fatalities]] like the [[Barbarian]] head bite by Siegebreaker?</font><br>
+<blue><font color="#FFFFFF">Will there be more boss-specific fatalities like the Barbarian head bite by Siegebreaker?</font><br>
 Bashiok: That's what we would like to do. We'd like it that when a player dies to a boss we may have a special/random event or death animation specific to that boss. So if you're going to die or have died to a boss, there's a random chance that you'll see something other than a normal death. That's the dream any way.</blue>
@@ Line 132: / Line 132: @@
 <blue>Well what we want to do with that, especially for particular bosses is have when essentially when the player is very low on health and they're about to die the boss essentially checks like when it attacks you, did I just do enough damage to kill you? And if so then instead of just doing his normal attack he'd actually play some kind of special I pick you up and eat you or I throw you up in the air and knock you around like a baseball or something like that. It's a system that really our announcement video we tested it for the first time, mainly just to see – can we actually do this kind of animation interaction between the characters but the actual system itself is still not in there but we do plan to do that and that's primarily where.
-We might do some other things, we've talked about [[physics]] based deaths we've talked about having the characters if they like die to a cold monster he might completely freeze solid into a statue and then shatter or things like that but we haven't decided at this point if that's exactly what we're going to do.</blue>
+We might do some other things, we've talked about physics based deaths we've talked about having the characters if they like die to a cold monster he might completely freeze solid into a statue and then shatter or things like that but we haven't decided at this point if that's exactly what we're going to do.</blue>
@@ Line 142: / Line 142: @@
 We have our wish lists, but it’s a balancing act of resources. Ideally our choices when balancing go toward setting realistic limitations, and producing the best game possible. </blue>
 ==References==

@@ Line 65: / Line 65: @@
 [[Bashiok]] in September 2008<ref>[http://www.diii.net/n/696684/bashiok-on-death-penalties Bashiok forum post] - September 2008</ref>, when there were no death penalties at all in Diablo 3.
-<blue}...we've found that a check point system works really well. Throughout your adventures, and generally at the ends of each "floor" of a dungeon your character is saved to a checkpoint. When you die you're dropped back at the last checkpoint with a small amount of health, and the rest regenerates slowly. It's obviously a very forgiving system as it is. It's just too early to put a ton of thought in to what penalties there should be, if any, added on top of it.
+<blue>...we've found that a check point system works really well. Throughout your adventures, and generally at the ends of each "floor" of a dungeon your character is saved to a checkpoint. When you die you're dropped back at the last checkpoint with a small amount of health, and the rest regenerates slowly. It's obviously a very forgiving system as it is. It's just too early to put a ton of thought in to what penalties there should be, if any, added on top of it.
 Regardless, potential penalties aside, this is the death mechanic we're currently using and it's working really well so far.</blue>

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:40, 27 May 2012
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−	'''Death''' comes to us all, especially in [[Diablo III]]. The D3 Team wants to make the game more challenging and involving than Diablo II, and they've incorporated numerous design ideas to create this, while avoiding punishing death penalties for softcore characters. [[Hardcore]] characters are as they were in Diablo ~~III~~; mortal. One death there is the end of a character. Forever.	+	'''Death''' comes to us all, especially in [[Diablo III]]. The D3 Team wants to make the game more challenging and involving than Diablo II, and they've incorporated numerous design ideas to create this, while avoiding punishing death penalties for softcore characters. [[Hardcore]] characters are as they were in Diablo II; mortal. One death there is the end of a character. Forever.

	For non-hardcore characters in Diablo III, death is a very temporary setback. Dead players can be resurrected by other players on the spot, or after a few second delay they may choose to respawn at the last [[checkpoint]] they reached. When they respawn they are wearing all of their equipment and have full health; there is no corpse to retrieve or loot as there was in Diablo 2. Characters do not lose any [[experience]] or [[gold]] upon death, though the developers have said there may be a hit to item durability, which could result in expensive repairs.		For non-hardcore characters in Diablo III, death is a very temporary setback. Dead players can be resurrected by other players on the spot, or after a few second delay they may choose to respawn at the last [[checkpoint]] they reached. When they respawn they are wearing all of their equipment and have full health; there is no corpse to retrieve or loot as there was in Diablo 2. Characters do not lose any [[experience]] or [[gold]] upon death, though the developers have said there may be a hit to item durability, which could result in expensive repairs.

@@ Line 86: / Line 86: @@
 ===Fatalities===
-[[Image:Mon-siegebreaker-decapitation.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Siegebreaker]] chomps.]]Besides the normal death animations, there are plans to include semi-random death animations that are keyed to special bosses, such as the amazing decapitation death [[Siegebreaker]] inflicted upon one of the Barbarians in the WWI Gameplay movie. D3 Community Manager [[Bashiok]] answered a question about this in a forum post. <ref>[http://www.diii.net/n/681638/bashiok-quick-answers Bashiok forum post] - August 2009</ref>
+[[Image:Mon-siegebreaker-decapitation.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Siegebreaker]] chomps.]]Besides the normal death animations, there are plans to include semi-random special death animations that are keyed to special bosses, such as the amazing decapitation death [[Siegebreaker]] inflicted upon one of the Barbarians in the WWI Gameplay movie.
-::'''''Will there be more boss-specific fatalities like the [[Barbarian]] head bite by [[Siegebreaker]]?'''''<br>
+D3 Community Manager [[Bashiok]] answered a question about this in a forum post. <ref>[http://www.diii.net/n/681638/bashiok-quick-answers Bashiok forum post] - August 2009</ref>
 ::''That's what we would like to do. We'd like it that when a player dies to a boss we may have a special/random event or death animation specific to that boss. So if you're going to die or have died to a boss, there's a random chance that you'll see something other than a normal death. That's the dream any way.''
@@ Line 94: / Line 96: @@
 ::''Well what we want to do with that, especially for particular bosses is have when essentially when the player is very low on health and they're about to die the boss essentially checks like when it attacks you, did I just do enough damage to kill you? And if so then instead of just doing his normal attack he'd actually play some kind of special I pick you up and eat you or I throw you up in the air and knock you around like a baseball or something like that. It's a system that really our announcement video we tested it for the first time, mainly just to see – can we actually do this kind of animation interaction between the characters but the actual system itself is still not in there but we do plan to do that and that's primarily where. We might do some other things, we've talked about [[physics]] based deaths we've talked about having the characters if they like die to a cold monster he might completely freeze solid into a statue and then shatter or things like that but we haven't decided at this point if that's exactly what we're going to do.''
-[[Hardcore]] players might want to try out some softcore, just to run around and die in interesting ways.
+Unfortunately, this feature did not make it into the actual game, as revealed in January 2012. [http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/no-gruesome-character-death-animations-in-diablo-iii]
-This information also creates more questions, though. How many such special animations are there? Do all the bosses have some special fatality move they only show when they kill a character in a special way?  Do any regular monsters have such talents? Do players die in as wide a variety of ways as monsters? Shattering when frozen, falling down and burning to a cinder from flame, charring to a skeleton from lightning, etc?
+We have our wish lists, but it’s a balancing act of resources. Ideally our choices when balancing go toward setting realistic limitations, and producing the best game possible. </blue>
 ==Hardcore Mode==

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 ==Death and Difficulty==
-[[File:Death-arena2.jpg|thumb|300px|Death in the [[Arena]].]]
+[[File:Death-in-town2.jpg|thumb|300px|Death in the [[beta]] in town.]]
 The [[D3 Team]] has talked about balancing D3 to make it a more steady struggle, than was D2. The design goal with D3 is to make the game consistently challenging, rather than very easy most of the time, with spikes of super hard boss monsters, Iron Maiden curses, Cursed Stygian Dolls, etc.  To that end, [[potions|potion]] use will be greatly curtailed, [[leech|life leech]] will be very rare, healing skills are uncommon, and there are no [[town portal]]s.
@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 Most fans still feel that some sort of death penalty is required, so players are not penalized for playing recklessly and ruining party games. The developers clearly don't think so, and since at this point they know the game far better than the fans, we basically have to take their word for it.
 ==Death Penalties==

@@ Line 101: / Line 101: @@
 ==Hardcore Mode==
 The inclusion of a [[Hardcore]] option was confirmed in August, 2010. <ref>[http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/jay-wilson-interview-gamespot-au/ Jay Wilson interview] - August 2010</ref>
@@ Line 106: / Line 108: @@
 At Blizzcon 2010, we also learned that there will be Hardcore options for the [[Battle Arena]] as well. Not for the faint of heart!
 ==References==

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-'''Death''' comes to us all, especially in [[Diablo III]]. The D3 Team wants to make the game more challenging and involving than Diablo II, and they've incorporated numerous design ideas to create this.
+'''Death''' comes to us all, especially in [[Diablo III]]. The D3 Team wants to make the game more challenging and involving than Diablo II, and they've incorporated numerous design ideas to create this, while avoiding punishing death penalties for softcore characters. [[Hardcore]] characters are as they were in Diablo III; mortal. One death there is the end of a character. Forever.
-While you may die in Diablo III, the penalties are not steep. Dead players respawn at the last [[checkpoint]] they reached, with all of their equipment still on; there is no corpse to retrieve in Diablo III, as there was in Diablo II. The only penalty (for non-[[hardcore]] characters) is a loss of [[durability]] to the equipment, which may result in expensive repairs.
+For non-hardcore characters in Diablo III, death is a very temporary setback. Dead players can be resurrected by other players on the spot, or after a few second delay they may choose to respawn at the last [[checkpoint]] they reached. When they respawn they are wearing all of their equipment and have full health; there is no corpse to retrieve or loot as there was in Diablo 2. Characters do not lose any [[experience]] or [[gold]] upon death, though the developers have said there may be a hit to item durability, which could result in expensive repairs.
-When a character is very low on health, a reddish haze appears around the outside of the screen, providing an emergency visual indicator.
+When a character is very low on health, a reddish haze appears around the outside of the screen, providing an emergency visual indicator. The sound effects are tweaked also, with the sound of a heartbeat added to emphasize the danger of imminent death.
@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
-===Playing Recklessly===
+===Discouraging Reckless Play===
 Diablo II's death penalty cost some gold, and experience as well on Nightmare and Hell. This was painful for players who were trying to level up, but for a character who was totally devoted to finding items, the death penalties were meaningless, since no items were lost. It was therefore strategically wise to go full out on [[magic find]] gear and play with reckless speed, since you'd find more items, wouldn't die very often, and when you did the penalties were negligible.
@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 Most fans still feel that some sort of death penalty is required, so players are not penalized for playing recklessly and ruining party games. The developers clearly don't think so, and since at this point they know the game far better than the fans, we basically have to take their word for it.
 ==Death Penalties==
-The "Death Penalty" is the term used to describe the negative consequences imparted to the player when they are killed by monsters or other players. The stated penalties have varied during Diablo III's development, and may not yet be written in stone. The most recent information came from Jay Wilson in August 2010[http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/jay-wilson-interview-pcgames.de/], when he said that death now results in durability losses to equipped items, which may result in expensive repairs.
+The "Death Penalty" is the term used to describe the negative consequences imparted to the player when they are killed by monsters or other players. The stated penalties have varied during Diablo III's development, and may not yet be written in stone. The most recent information came from Jay Wilson in August 2010<ref>[http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/jay-wilson-interview-pcgames.de/ Jay Wilson interview] - August 2010</ref> when he said that death now results in durability losses to equipped items, which may result in expensive repairs.
-An earlier comment came from [[Bashiok]] in September 2008[http://www.diii.net/n/696684/bashiok-on-death-penalties]. At that point there was no death penalty at all, other than the loss of pride and some time spent to return to the sight of your failure.
+An earlier comment came from [[Bashiok]] in September 2008.<ref>[http://www.diii.net/n/696684/bashiok-on-death-penalties Bashiok forum post] - September 2008</ref> At that point there was no death penalty at all, other than the loss of pride and some time spent to return to the sight of your failure.
 ::''...we've found that a check point system works really well. Throughout your adventures, and generally at the ends of each "floor" of a dungeon your character is saved to a checkpoint. When you die you're dropped back at the last checkpoint with a small amount of health, and the rest regenerates slowly. It's obviously a very forgiving system as it is. It's just too early to put a ton of thought in to what penalties there should be, if any, added on top of it.''
@@ Line 39: / Line 40: @@
 [[File:Death-revive.jpg|thumb|250px|Death and revive.]]
-Bashiok also said this, regarding death in the [[BlizzCon 2008]] demo:[http://www.diii.net/blog/comments/what-happens-when-you-die/]
+Bashiok also said this, regarding death in the [[BlizzCon 2008]] demo:<ref>[http://www.diii.net/blog/comments/what-happens-when-you-die Bashiok forum post] - August 2008</ref>
 ::''We had a [[checkpoint]] system in the BlizzCon demo we showed, where you would die and pop back up at the last chekpoint you came across. Some of that was for the convenience of the demo, but we do like the checkpoint system and intend to carry that forward in the same or similar form. We're not looking toward corpse retrieval currently.''
 ::''Any death system we do have needs to allow players to get back into the action quickly, but not be so meaningless that you’re just flinging your corpse against a wall of monsters over and over until you finally get through.''
-It's not known if there will be more substantial penalties on higher difficulty levels; presumably characters will be wearing equipment that is more expensive to repair, thus letting the team scale up the costs accordingly. It's unlikely that more harsh penalties will be imposed, since that runs counter to one of the team's main design goals. [http://www.diii.net/n/687801/jay-wilson-from-leipzig-5]
+It's not known if there will be more substantial penalties on higher difficulty levels; presumably characters will be wearing equipment that is more expensive to repair, thus letting the team scale up the costs accordingly. It's unlikely that more harsh penalties will be imposed, since that runs counter to one of the team's main design goals.<ref>[http://www.diii.net/n/687801/jay-wilson-from-leipzig-5 Jay Wilson Interview] - August 2009</ref>
 ::''"We have not actually decided on the final death mechanic. I can guarantee that you will not lose experience. We are not urging to big penalties for death. But we want enough of a penalty to be there, so that death has meaning! Like to lose a little bit time, some kind of detriment... We do not currently have a [[durability]] loss (to equipment), but some kind of ... a gold cost is actually not so bad. And having the player to waste some time, that is certainly an element. Generally we kind of rely on the effect that players do not want to die. You know, you just do not want to. So there is no real reason to add a further "ding" to them for something happening that was already unfavorable to them. But we have not got our final mechanics on that, yet.''
@@ Line 85: / Line 87: @@
 ===Fatalities===
-[[Image:Mon-siegebreaker-decapitation.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Siegebreaker]] chomps.]]Besides the normal death animations, there are plans to include semi-random death animations that are keyed to special bosses, such as the amazing decapitation death [[Siegebreaker]] inflicted upon one of the Barbarians in the WWI Gameplay movie. D3 Community Manager [[Bashiok]] answered a question about this [http://www.diii.net/n/681638/bashiok-quick-answers in a forum post].
+[[Image:Mon-siegebreaker-decapitation.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Siegebreaker]] chomps.]]Besides the normal death animations, there are plans to include semi-random death animations that are keyed to special bosses, such as the amazing decapitation death [[Siegebreaker]] inflicted upon one of the Barbarians in the WWI Gameplay movie. D3 Community Manager [[Bashiok]] answered a question about this in a forum post. <ref>[http://www.diii.net/n/681638/bashiok-quick-answers Bashiok forum post] - August 2009</ref>
 ::'''''Will there be more boss-specific fatalities like the [[Barbarian]] head bite by [[Siegebreaker]]?'''''<br>
@@ Line 100: / Line 102: @@
 ==Hardcore Mode==
-The inclusion of a [[Hardcore]] option was confirmed in August, 2010. [http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/jay-wilson-interview-gamespot-au/]
+The inclusion of a [[Hardcore]] option was confirmed in August, 2010. <ref>[http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/jay-wilson-interview-gamespot-au/ Jay Wilson interview] - August 2010</ref>
 Just as in Diablo 2, when a Hardcore character dies in Diablo 3, they stay dead. Permanently. There will be some additional bells and whistles added to HC characters on Battle.net, since the team wants a HC player to be instantly noticeable in the chat channels.
 At Blizzcon 2010, we also learned that there will be Hardcore options for the [[Battle Arena]] as well. Not for the faint of heart!

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:42, 27 January 2011
Line 12:		Line 12:
	These changes make healing from [[health globes]] the primary way to stay alive, and monsters will be balanced to drop health globes just often enough for players to survive, but not so much that they litter the screen after every skirmish.		These changes make healing from [[health globes]] the primary way to stay alive, and monsters will be balanced to drop health globes just often enough for players to survive, but not so much that they litter the screen after every skirmish.

		+
		+	===Playing Recklessly===
		+
		+	Diablo II's death penalty cost some gold, and experience as well on Nightmare and Hell. This was painful for players who were trying to level up, but for a character who was totally devoted to finding items, the death penalties were meaningless, since no items were lost. It was therefore strategically wise to go full out on [[magic find]] gear and play with reckless speed, since you'd find more items, wouldn't die very often, and when you did the penalties were negligible.
		+
		+	Given that Diablo III will have even more negligible death penalties than Diablo II, won't this be a problem? It was never fun to party with a crazy player in Diablo II, since they just ran off on their own to find bosses, and made no effort to clear levels or play with any teamwork.
		+
		+	Bashiok said no, in an October 2010 post about the lack of death penalties in the game: <ref>[http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/blue-no-death-penalties-required-in-d3/ Bashiok forum post] - Battl.net forums, October 5, 2010</ref>
		+
		+	<blue>I don’t think death penalties need to edge into the ‘punishment’ definition (although I realize that’s a confusion of terms) to be worthwhile.<br>
		+
		+	Making sure someone can’t endlessly throw themselves against monsters/die/repeat and eventually win is something we’d want to stop. To make the player take pause and realize they’re not going to get past them unless they straighten up and pay attention and play better, or take some extra measures to buff up, or simply come up with a different strategy, those are the types of death penalties that work. Those are the ones we like and that I’m talking about.
		+
		+	Taking gold away from people, or taking a full level of experience away, yeah, that’s a wake up call. It’s also the quickest way to get someone to uninstall the game. A very select few people will put up with something like that. It’s fine in Diablo II because gold has almost no use, but imagine if it did. You’d be encouraged through the mechanic to grind in easier areas where you’re sure you couldn’t die just so you could earn gold safely. That sounds terrible. Without a gold penalty you can play the content you want to play and meanwhile you’re finding items and amounts of gold that are relevant. That sounds like fun. </blue>
		+
		+	Most fans still feel that some sort of death penalty is required, so players are not penalized for playing recklessly and ruining party games. The developers clearly don't think so, and since at this point they know the game far better than the fans, we basically have to take their word for it.

	==Death Penalties==		==Death Penalties==